CVS vs. SNHMC: Public Debate Over Land Use Plays Out on Facebook

The following are the Nov. 7 minutes of the Finance Committee's discussion of R-12-78, which help to shed light on the issue.

R-12-78: AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF NASHUA TO ENTER INTO A GROUND LEASE AGREEMENT WITH CVS MANCHESTER NH, L.L.C.
Endorsers: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau
Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy
Alderman Michael J. Tabacsko
Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr.
Alderman Richard A. Dowd
AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF NASHUA TO ENTER INTO A GROUND LEASE AGREEMENT WITH CVS MANCHESTER NH, L.L.C.

MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE

Mayor Lozeau: I’m going to pass out these maps.

Alderman Chasse: Is it imperative that we pass this tonight?

Mayor Lozeau: Why don’t we walk through a discussion about it first. Some of us have been working on this for quite some time with CVS and getting a sense of what this is, what are you looking for to have happen?

Alderman Chasse: I do not have them. Supposedly, two pages were passed out.

Alderman Deane:  I handed them to Alderman Craffey.

Alderman Chasse: I have not gotten them yet. I have not had a chance to read them. I do not like to vote on anything that I have not had a chance to read in the master plan. We have a constituent who came tonight and he has no
feedback on it. I think the City should sit down with the hospital first and put all the cards on the table and come to agreement before I do anything on this. That is my feeling. I don’t know about the rest of the committee. I am not ready to vote yet.

Mayor Lozeau: Alderman Chasse, Mr. Cote said, I reached out to him when it was appropriate to reach out to him. We have worked to try to find the appropriate balance. I don’t know that we are ever going to be in a place
where we have agreement with the hospital. I know the hospital has reached out to CVS to propose something different and CVS is not interested in doing that. I intend to still try to find an opportunity to help find some solution for the hospital and the loss of the parking spaces. There is another part of the master
plan that this plan actually does accomplish, i.e., moving that building from the backside, off Main Street, up to the street like we have done with Citizen’s Bank and things like that are a real opportunity here. I do not believe they have filed their Planning Board paperwork. I have reached out to them to ask them when I
could provide to the hospital a copy of their site plan.

Alderman Chasse: What you are telling me is there are two master plans?

Mayor Lozeau: I’m telling you there are multiple things within the master plan. What Mr. Cote is referring to is the master plan that said, wouldn’t it be great to put a four story building there and the hospital is interested in doing
that. But when you look at the players, the land where CVS is, is not owned by CVS. It is owned by somebody else in the community. The land that the hospital would like to build on, they are trying to determine whether they can do it on their own land, which you can see on this map to the right of those two
parcels. As much as somebody might like CVS to do what they would like on this site, CVS has done certain things here in order to make this work. They purchased the other two properties here, they are not colored yellow but are to the left.

Alderman Chasse:  Which property are we talking about, the 31-7?

Mayor Lozeau: Right. What I’m demonstrating with this map, is the first piece of yellow on Main Street and East Hollis Street is the land that currently CVS is using. The land behind it is the city’s parking lot which the hospital is
currently renting, which CVS needs to use in order to move their building up in compliance with part of the master plan that says, your building will be closer to the sidewalk and parking will be behind your building. They purchased the other two buildings that are on that site; Sharron Medical Supplies and the restaurant
building to make this whole plan work. They are not interested in moving over the side with Southern New Hampshire Medical Center and looking at potentially building a garage there that will do everything. One of the reasons we are in this circumstance, is because some of the other locations that CVS was considering
downtown, would have really been different than our master plan.

Alderman Chasse: Do we have anything for our master plan?

Mayor Lozeau: Mr. Cote could provide that. I don’t know which pages he provided. I assumed he would be here tonight. Our master plan clearly talks about taller downtown buildings, which is the same thing the City had asked
Citizen’s Bank to do many years ago and Citizen’s Bank ended up building a two-story, but it’s a false second story. That is the same thing CVS is interested in doing. CVS does not want to be part of a multistory building. We cannot make somebody build a multistory building, so the best we can do is try to get them in compliance with the things we would like. This is a critical corner and so not having CVS there and leaving that there, some of the other locations downtown that they considered, is one of the reasons that the City tried to work with them to keep them on this corner. We did not want them to move to other locations. One of which was a developer willing to take down the two buildings right next door to City Hall, which I found rather horrifying; two historic buildings that would come down to put a CVS on that corner
because they were interested in that corner. They had very limited areas that they were interested in. We met with them, Community Development and others to talk about what the options might be and get as much movement as we could. I’ve talked to Mr. Cote about potentially using his garage, or adding another floor to their current garage to make up those 80 spaces. We are looking at putting a deck on parking they already have. They certainly have room to look at putting a garage on space that they already own. If you
would like to table this tonight for further discussion, I don’t have an objection. I will talk to CVS and we might have to have a special meeting just to deal with it as long as there is no objection to the Committee for that.

Alderman Chasse: That would be the number one thing. This way everybody is going to be happy, when we come in we are going to say, ok, this is the way we are going. I do not want to see the hospital being upset because they are losing 80 parking spots. If they are going to put an extra floor and another deck up on their garage, is that going to be done before the building so that the 80 cars are just sitting out there someplace or the garage is going to be done first which eliminates the problem, then go ahead with CVS; what is the timeframe? It’s not going to throw the CVS out there and then 80 people have no place to park.

Mayor Lozeau: There are a couple of things in play. I don’t think everybody is going to be happy in the end. I am not sure that we could ever make the hospital as whole as they would like to be. I will continue to be willing to talk to
them, but I’m not sure that we can solve that problem. This solves a different problem that I think is equally important to what needs to happen. I would agree with Mr. Cote. I think the hospital is a critical player in the community. What I would like to do tonight is, at least discuss the lease and then the discussion around who is where and what happens with the hospital can come after. If we could ask Mr. Bennett to be here tonight to at least walk through the lease, we can get that squared away, then table it and then have a discussion later about those other components that you are interested in, that might make some sense.

Alderman Chasse: I will defer to my other Aldermen.

Alderman Wilshire: My first question was, how many parking spots, but I think you said 80. Is CVS contemplating expanding, are they adding jobs or just building a new building?

Mayor Lozeau: It should be a larger footprint. I would imagine there may be some jobs included with that larger footprint and what they might need.

Alderman Wilshire: There may be, but we don’t know that.

Mayor Lozeau: I can’t recall specifically.

Alderman Wilshire: My concern is that we’re displacing 80 people that park and currently hold jobs here in the city. I understand that the Medical Center could do something different, but as far as 80 parking spots of people
who are currently working in jobs and have things going on downtown, I’m not sure I’m ready to vote on this either. I would like to find out more about what the plan would be for the Medical Center if we displaced 80 parking spaces for CVS. I understand that needs to happen too and it’s been part of the rehab of this corner. I don’t think that right now in this economy putting 80 people downtown without parking and losing jobs, whatever the case may be, I think there needs to be an answer for the Medical Center and for their parking too.

Mayor Lozeau: I agree. I have also mentioned to Mr. Cote that the City garage, you can almost see it in the picture here, which might be a good option for staff, that we could potentially talk about as well, the Elm Street garage.
It’s not that far.

Alderman Wilshire: Are there 80 spaces available in that garage?

Mayor Lozeau: I think probably pretty close, if not all 80. I think the bigger challenge would be for the outpatients that are parking in that general area.

Alderman Deane: The Tower’s Motor Part and Sharron Medical Center, those buildings have been purchased by CVS?

Mayor Lozeau: Yes.

Alderman Deane: How long ago?

Mayor Lozeau: I shouldn’t say that. They are under agreement for this plan.

Alderman Deane: They haven’t closed?

Mayor Lozeau: No.

Alderman Deane: I realize looking through the front of the legislation that there are four Aldermen that are co-sponsoring. Have any Alderman been part of this process?

Mayor Lozeau: Yes. All the co-sponsors have been part of the process. I’ve had discussions. I’ve talked with CVS.

Alderman Deane: Were they together? Was it a group that met?

Mayor Lozeau: I don’t think it was all at the same time.

Alderman Deane: So they met singly?

Mayor Lozeau: No I don’t think they met singly. I just can’t remember exactly.

Alderman Deane: When was that? Alderman Craffey is one of them, right? Can I ask him?

Mayor Lozeau: Certainly.

Alderman Deane: Did you meet as a group Alderman Craffey?

Alderman Craffey: Yes. Myself, the Mayor, Alderman McCarthy and CVS met in the Mayor’s office.

Alderman Deane: You didn’t meet with Alderman McCarthy and Alderman Tabacsko?

Alderman Craffey: Alderman Tabacsko was also there.

Mayor Lozeau: I couldn’t remember, but they were all there.

Alderman Deane: What about Alderman Dowd?

Alderman Craffey: I don’t remember Alderman Dowd being there.

Mayor Lozeau No. Alderman Dowd was not there.

Alderman Deane Thank you Mayor.

Alderman Pressly: Would we be allowed to know what other locations CVS looked at? You mentioned there was more than one other location. Is it appropriate to define what their needs are and explore all over the city where they might find a home they would be happy with, or have you already done that?

Mayor Lozeau: Already done that. They are not interested in leaving downtown.

Alderman Pressly: They like the Main Street?

Mayor Lozeau: They have certain traffic requirements at certain locations, that includes a traffic light being part of their location. There were three locations; their current location, the location directly across the street where those two buildings are and a location further down the street that started at Kinsley Street and worked it’s way down through those Victorian homes towards the garage.

Alderman Pressly: Have the owner’s of the land been involved? Is it Belanger Properties, LLC? They own the current site that they are on?

Mayor Lozeau: That’s correct.

Alderman Pressly: What sort of a lease do they have with CVS for that?

Mayor Lozeau: They have a long-term agreement with CVS.

Alderman Pressly: That is in existence now?

Mayor Lozeau: Yes. It has been since they got there.

Alderman Pressly: Far into the future?

Mayor Lozeau: I would imagine, unless they cannot meet CVS’s needs. I’m sure they have something that allows CVS to move to a new location or they wouldn’t have been comparing other locations.

Alderman Pressly: That’s the reason I ask. I would certainly like to get more information. I agree with you it’s a very critical location. I think we have to be very careful and do what is best for the whole city on this. I would like to see
what other spots, besides the one across the street were considered.

Mayor Lozeau: I just told you there were two other spots; the one across the street and then further down Main Street beginning at Kinsley Street just after the Russian Market, the Wingate property, just after that from that
Victorian house down to the garage, past Dube Service Station up to Prospect Street was the other location.

Alderman Pressly: Are those properties on the market?

Mayor Lozeau: They are not on the market. There was a developer offering that site to CVS and a developer offering this site to CVS and the CVS stayed where they are. I happen to object to those other two locations and think it would be rather detrimental to the downtown.

Alderman Pressly: It would be very close to Walgreen’s too.

Mayor Lozeau: That’s a business decision. I’m thinking about the look and the potential of relocating those Victorian properties.

Alderman Pressly: So, in the struggle as to how you are going to work this, you found it more acceptable to have CVS remain on that corner, moving their building closer to the road and having the parking then behind.

Mayor Lozeau: That’s correct. In keeping with the master plan and better for the look of these four corners. This is a central entry point in downtown. There is a lot of traffic here. The site as it currently sits, is not very attractive.

Alderman Pressly: If this were to be approved, they would plan to demolish the two pieces and they would have a huge area?

Mayor Lozeau: Right. The store would come up closer to the sidewalk and take up that general area. It would really change that corner and how it looks. I think having spoken with the Community Development Director and the Economic Development Director, we are all on board. Based on what the options were this is the site that makes the most sense and how do we help them stay here. How do we help the hospital at the same time if we can? How do we make that work? It’s not an easy solution.

Alderman Pressly: Have you thought of dividing the parking?

Mayor Lozeau: They need all the parking that’s there.

Alderman Pressly: That’s more than they have now. It’s a great deal more.

Mayor Lozeau: I don’t think it’s a great deal more. Based on what they are doing, that is what they need. Part of it is city regulations for the size. This was not easily arrived at.

Alderman Pressly: I appreciate that, but I hope you also appreciate this is the first time we are hearing about it. We have to go back to square one and work through all the aspects of it.

Mayor Lozeau: I understand that. That’s one of the reasons I included the Board President because I thought he should be aware of it. Of course, he is very skilled at land use planning. I included the Ward Alderman because it’s
his Ward. I included the Chairman of the PEDC Committee because that’s the committee that oversees this kind of thing. I understand that.

Alderman Pressly: Where did Alderman Dowd fit in?

Mayor Lozeau: Alderman Dowd did not fit into that group. I think when he saw it, he asked to be a sponsor. I didn’t ask him to come to a meeting and meet with us, but I thought it was important for the Aldermen I mentioned,
based on the positions that they hold to be in the loop and be part of the discussions and that is what we did. Is there any objection to at least walking through the lease and trying to get that piece out of the way?

Alderman Chasse: What happens if you go into agreement right now? If you sit down with the hospital and CVS and you come up with another one, you have to change the lease. Now we are going to go through the whole process
again? I think the ducks should be in a row.

MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO TABLE R-12-78
MOTION CARRIED