Rev. Andrew Butler: Keeping Up with Changes in Church and Society

Rev. Andrew Butler did not take over St. John's Episcopal Church with the intention of making waves -- but he has made an impact in his role in less than a year.

His most controversial moves were organizing a on Montclair Avenue -- which drew a great deal of attention, some of it negative -- and his offer to during the winter of 2010-11.   

Recently, he hailed the  a personal issue for him, given that he ultimately broke with the denomination for reasons that included its stance on lesbian/gay issues. 

This week, Butler sat down with Patch to discuss how he feels modern society is changing and how it will ultimately affect the church and its governance.  

Patch:  Having once been a part of the Presbyterian Church, what do you think about the new amendment to its Constitution? 

Butler: I’m excited for the Presbyterian Church.  I applaud the church for taking this bold step. 

Patch:  What effect do you think this will have? 

Butler:  It saddens me to think that some people will leave the Presbyterian Church because of this.  However, I don’t think you can be middle of the road anymore.  I notice that the churches that are growing are the ones that are either more conservative or else on the side of full inclusivity.  There’s this whole notion of 'radical hospitality'. 

The churches that are shrinking are the ones that are not bold enough to say one way or another what they stand for.

A theological writer I admire, Phyllis Tickle, says that every 500 years the church goes through a reformation.  She believes we’re now in the midst of another reformation.  I [also] believe we’re going through a radical shift in culture. 

Society is changing.  The church has to change also.  People are now meeting [to worship] online, in houses, people are exploring other faiths.  For me this is exciting.  I’m excited for the Presbyterian Church. 

Patch:  And yet you left the Presbyterian Church. 

Butler:  I have two theological degrees from Presbyterian schools in Princeton and Richmond but [ultimately] the Presbyterian church wasn’t a fit for me theologically. Related to that was their stance on lesbian/gay issues. 

Patch:  How did that stance affect your experience as a seminarian? 

Butler:  I came out in ’99 when I was in the Presbyterian seminary.  I know people who had to be closeted in order to stay in the Presbyterian church.  I have had clergy tell me I had to keep my orientation a secret.  I know people who have had to live a double life [to remain in the church.] 

For me it wasn’t an option, not to be open with the congregation.  I don’t want to be known as a “gay priest” – not at all, but lying about it doesn’t go along with living with integrity. 

Patch:  Since you’ve been at St. John’s you seem to have taken the unbeaten path several times, often at the expense of public support.  For instance, you were criticized by many people  when you organized a dual faith Muslim-Christian service at St. John’s. 

Butler:  I’m used to it, being a gay Christian. I’m used to conservative Christians talking in that tone.  

It only strengthens my resolve to do more interfaith work.  And to not stop there, but to figure out other ways that we can partner together.  Not for anyone to change their denomination but for us to learn from each other.  Each faith helps to fill in pieces of the story.   

Patch:  Can you describe what that service meant to you? 

Butler:  I got a sense of commonality.  I really felt a spirit, God’s spirit -- or the spirit of Allah – -- a sense of shared humanity.  And a shared need to connect with God. 

Patch:  Did you realize ahead of time what the reaction would be? 

Butler:  I don’t think I did realize.  Some people were sending me links to “Jihad Watch.”  I had no idea this stuff even existed.  Honestly, it reminded me of some of the racist stuff from the south.  Some of the caricatures of Muslims, I mean, they reminded me of some of the southern caricatures of African Americans.  Just as offensive and ugly and hateful. 

Patch:  Do you regret in any way having done it? 

Butler:  I am so glad we did it.  I would never feel sorry for living the gospel imperative, which is loving one another.  I’d feel worse for not fulfilling my baptismal covenant or my ordination vows.

It would be really easy to sit in this office all day and dream up little tiny programs and visit the sick and that would be it.  But to me there’s so much in the world that needs to be done.  . . . making a difference in people’s lives, it’s not always easy and you’re not always going to be popular for doing that.  

It’s like housing the homeless.  It’s not a popular thing to do. 

Patch:  On that subject, you were also criticized for offering to shelter some of Essex County’s homeless population this winter. 

Butler:  Serving homeless people isn’t easy.  It’s just the nature of it.  Living the gospel isn’t easy.  But we were called to do it. 

The question was, should [the homeless population] be in this neighborhood?  The answer is no.  This is a residential neighborhood. I take full responsibility for that.  People in the neighborhood wanted more notice but I tried to explain -- it really was an emergency situation.   

Still, keeping people safe and warm in the winter –our ultimate goal – was accomplished.  I’m on the task force to find another placement for [the homeless] next winter.  

Patch:  St. John’s is becoming known as a pretty controversial place. 

Butler:  Well, that certainly wasn’t my intention.  It wasn’t my intention to be controversial.  My goal was to be the church and not play the church. 

We can come to church and we can play like, you know, good little Christians, coming to church on Sunday, have your Bible study, cook for each other and be good little people, but I think being the church really calls sometimes for more than that. It can create problems and it can create controversy.  And if it does that’s okay.  Quite okay. 

Patch:  Have people reached out to support you? 

Butler:  They have.  People who know me know I am not an attention seeker.  I don’t like to be [the object of attention.]  It just so happened there were these opportunities.  There’s a controversial Bishop in Newark who said, ‘if you’re not upsetting people you’re not doing your job.’

Patch:  What does the next year at St. John’s look like? 

Butler:  I’m looking forward to igniting our members here.  Progressive Christian communities are places that are moving ahead, taking more risks, and that’s what called me to St. John’s.