LIVE COVERAGE: Chabad School Zoning Board Meeting

TOMS RIVER, NJ -- This is live coverage of the appeal of the Chabad Jewish School, which is seeking an interpretation of whether a use variance is needed to add a school and place of worship as uses to an existing single-family home.

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7:40 p.m.: At this time the zoning board members are all addressing the issue of whether they have signed petitions, received mailings or have been influenced on the decision in any way.

7:45 p.m.: Attorney for the applicant notes that the properties surrounded on three sides by non-residential uses. Seeking interpretation of the use variance.

Rabbi Moshe Gourarie will be speaking to address what the chabad does, how it integrates with the community and that there is no desire to operate a school.

7:50 p.m. Applicant’s attorney citing a 1985 case where a Methodist minister was holding meetings in his home that were banned by zoning, and ruling overturned by a court ruling on constitutional grounds.

Also presenting case from Deal in 1985, rabbi used his home as a secondary house of worship. Zoning overturned on vagueness.

8 p.m.: Mr. Costa, applicant’s attorney, says they seek clarification of what is problematic about the activities at the chabad, for which Gourarie has received what Costa called vague tickets.

Gourarie is speaking. There are 3,000 centers across the world, 53 in NJ. Motto is love your fellow as yourself. Try to bring teachings of Judaism to those who want to learn about it. Interact with non-traditional/non-Orthodox people.

“We try to bring humor and fun to our programs for anyone who wants to participate in our programs.”

Visit senior citizen homes, hospitals. Teach Hebrew and Judaism to adults, teens and children.

Only Chabad in Ocean County. Others in Monmouth County.

You will not find a Chabad in a predominately Orthodox neighborhood. Its role is outreach.

Moved to Toms River in 2004, previously was living in a home on New Hampshire Avenue, moved to Church Road with wife and children in 2011.

Remark “We are not looking to grow or expand at this time,” draws rumbles from the audience that has filled the auditorium at Toms River North. Gourarie said, “Let me clarify,” and said the Chabad has been in operation for 11 years and has not grown significantly in that time.

Typically they have 15 people who come to services. Five or six children attend what is referred to as Hebrew School on the Chabad website. They attend with parents.

Home office currently exists. Attorney: “It is not a place where you have large board meetings?” Gourarie: “No.”

8:10 p.m. Costa is submitting a printout of the Chabad Jewish School’s Facebook page as an exhibit. It is the events page. It shows 2015.

On the Chabad website activities go back to 2012.

Reciting events from the page -- Menorah lighting at Manchester Township municipal building, toy drive at Ocean County Mall, family birthday party that coincided with a holiday. Yom Kippur event was held at another site because it draws 150 people at its peak.

Costa: “Larger events are held off-site?” Gourarie: “Yes.”

Hosted a Holocaust survivor who spoke about experiences.

First Friday -- Shabbat services with dinner afterward. Happens monthly.

Passover Seder -- at the home 50 people attended. -- That draws gasps from the audience.

Purim -- held at a local hotel.

Earliest event on the calendar is “just a class,” Gourarie said.

Schedule is “fairly typical,” he said.

8:25 p.m.: Going through photos posted on the Chabad website. Gourarie is explaining the events they are from -- celebration held for son’s third birthday is one of them. Photos showing prayers.

How many people come to events? Costa asks.

Prayer services are 15 people. Special events -- Sukkot, lectures, bring 30-35 people. They are not frequent. The larger events are held at a different location because of the number of people attending.

Costa: If board required you to move larger events off property, would you do that?

Gourarie: Yes.

8:30 p.m. Board questions: Of the 12 events held at the home, what was attendance?

Holidays 35.

CTeen has 4

Behind Enemy Lines -- 40

Board president: Guests listed on the Facebook page fewer? Gourarie: They are only those who clicked on Facebook that they were attending. Not actual representation of how many attended.

Board question: What number do you have that makes you want to move it off-site?

Gourarie pauses long. Residents respond with applause -- board president tells the audience to simmer down ”This hearing won’t go well if this continues.”

Gourarie answers by saying that events where he expects 40 to 50, he will try to seek an alternate location.

Why is Passover held at the home? Why number so high?

Gourarie: This year was the first time it was so large. Holding offsite for Passover is more complicated. He does not drive, kosher laws make moving it to a hotel more difficult. For Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur he and his family actually move to a hotel for those events.

Question about the number of likes, and growth of that.

Facebook likes don’t necessarily mean active involvement.

Operation in 2015 resembles very much the last two years, “maybe even got smaller.”

8:40 p.m. Liston, attorney representing opponents: Did you research zoning?

“Some.”

Liston: Did you know it was no longer a permitted use.

Liston is asking whether Gourarie did research and understood what was and wasn’t permitted there. Gourarie said he had an attorney at the time. Says he walked into zoning office.

My attorney indicated we would be able to pursue when we moved in.

Liston asking about property where Gourarie lived on New Hampshire Avenue. Gourarie says he rented there.

Liston: Were you ever challenged on that property about what you were doing? “I was called on two occasions by Bernard Mackle about events.”

Liston providing printouts from website. Wants Gourarie to say whether pages are from the Chabad website.

Liston: “Is there anything inaccurate or not part of your websites?”

Gourarie: Chabad.org is not my website. One other page is fundraising, not his website but it is his event, he said.

Liston: Quoting from Chabad.org website. “A Chabad house is a Jewish community center in the truest sense of the word ... serving needs of entire Jewish community.”

Gourarie -- there are many types of Chabads. Statement is overexaggerated with regard to what he is doing in Toms River. It describes larger Chabads, larger communities.

a lot of Chabad houses are smaller -- ours is smaller.

Costa: Attorney (referring to Liston) is trying to put words in his mouth.

Gourarie: Just beacuse there is an ultimate goal doesn’t mean every Chabad house is going to fit into that.

“We don’t necessarily do everything they do.”

Liston is asking whether the statement is a mission statement for all Chabads.

Gourarie: There are over 3000 Chabad centers worldwide. Each operates accoring to its community, tailors its services to its specific community.

“Do you consider your chabad a jewish community center?” Gourarie: “No. A community center imply something a lot larger like a JCC (Jewish community center). We’re a place where people can come and explore judaism.”

Board asking questions:

How many Chabads house the rabbi and his family. Some chabads are the home for the rabbi others are not.

Board member: Why are weekly services so small (attendance) and high holy days higher attendance?

“I believe many a rabbi would like an answer to that. Sitting and praying for 2-1/2 hours is not exciting.

Board asking about previous issues at New Hampshire Avenue. Noise violations? No. Were you told it wasn’t a permitted use? No.

Board member:

You do not drive Saturday and sometimes 15-20 people attend services? “Yes.”

Where are religious services? In garage. We will invite people into house for dinners.

At first services held in house.

Has garage been altered? A floor put down. Office is above the garage.

Most cars parked at residence? If more than 20 extremely rare.

Outreach? Very general term.

More on the garage -- heated? Air conditioning?

Heat was installed before they purchased the home. Air conditioning is by window units. Bathrooms -- four in the house, one easily accessible. No bathrooms in garage.

What if the publicity brings more interest and more attendees?

If number of attendees started growing significantly would talk to attorney.

Gourarie has two cars.

Striped parking? No. How is 10 spaces determined?

Costa: Engineer measured out the spaces. There’s a lot of additional parking area available.

9:10 p.m.: Resident questions.

Dan Figaro: welcome to communtiy

Do you pay property tax? Chabad is a tax-exempt organization and does not pay property tax.

Gourarie I am not a homeowner in toms river.

Figaro: Is it zoned to be used in this manner

Costa -- this is what this hearing is about.

So the purpose of this hearing is to see if what’s going on now should be going on?

Lugo: There is an inconvenience to us that we are paying taxes and he is not.

Who is the beneficial owner of that property? Chabad Jewish Center of Toms River.

Costa -- that is a legal opinion he (Lugo) is asking.

Lugo -- he is receiving that tax exemption for living there?

I think what everybody here is feeling is there’s something here that’s not right.

Will he be permanently tax exempt?

Pascarella -- the issue of tax exemption has nothing to do with this board. (loud r

When will rabbi deem too big for his residence. Is there a magic number the board could set before it has to be moved off.

Costa -- that’s exactly what we’re loking for the board’s guidance on.

Next resident: Rick Dispoto. Two main roads that run north to south -- Hooper Avenue and Route 9. Southern part of town going east to west no problem. Church Road is the only one (east to west) for north part.

Is it fair to crowd it up some more if Chabad is approved?

Board president: That is the subject of this hearing. If approved there would be conditions set.

Sean Wozniak: Why did you have an engineer at your house? Gourarie: For this application.

Costa -- one of checklist items for submitting application is a need for a survey. Site plan is based on existing condition and not on expansion. There is no plan for future expansion on the site.

Next resident: If a thousand people showed up at your home would you turn them away?

Gourarie: Within reason.

If a thousand people showed up at First Friday I would have no choice but to turn people away.

Generally people coming to First Friday tell us in advance

If tell us on Facebook I would jump for joy -- I would change the location.

We do not have a definite number of his membership.

Would you consider all the members of all the Chabads part of your congregation? Everybody is welcome at Chabad. 3,000 Chabads are independent.

Can you give a definite number of people who will show up? That is the guidance sought from the board.

9:30 p.m. Michael Mayer. Rabbi, do you have any other source of employment besides Chabad.

Mayer cited several cases of home being used for religious purposes. He is the director, this is not his residence.

He does some very nice things, he does outreach in the community.

Mayer: This is a business. He’s a director of a business operating in a residential area.

Costa -- this is a legitimate use. We are not here for the use variance yet we are here for an interpretation.

Donna Sierchio: How many parishioners are in your synagogue -- in general. Not at one time.

Gourarie: we are not a membership based organization

It’s a 5,000 square foot home on 7 acres. How do the bills get paid.

Gourarie: We are supported by others who do not attend any of our events.

Martin Weiner: I would like to know how long your school day is.

What school? Only on Sunday mornings. 10 a.m. to noon. Hebrew, the holidays, other Jewish fun things. Gourarie: these are children who attend public school.

Justin Heaton: You said you don’t drive and that’s a hardship. When would you move offsite?

Gourarie: If Sabbath brings a larger number of people we would have a different use for this property.

If we grew if we had a regular attendance of 50 people, we would do something else. We would have different plans.

Gourarie said if growth occurs and the Chabad reaches a point where its activities are too big, he might have to move or buy another property.

It would not be what we’re doing now without going through the proper process.

Next resident: Have any of those who attend asked you to build a school? “No.”

Have traffic studies been done on Church Road.

Pascarella: It’s a county road.

Tom Nibison: Mr. Liston stated ordinance stated 2009 prohibiting this use. So this has been operating since 2011. Isn’t that illegal.

Costa: We do not believe the ordinance prohibits this use.

If a business open up illegally or quasi-illegally isn’t it shut down. Isn’t ticketed?

What about tax-exempt status (Loud cheering)

Joe Lubrano: Since it has been operating without a permit does the board plan to take any action?

Board president: The board does not have that authority.

Size of garage: 1,400 square feet, but the residence is bigger. Most of residence is not the Chabad.

Board president: We have no control over that.

Next resident: Do students pay a fee?

How many people are on the mailing list? About 1,000 but many do not live here.

Teen group: boys and girls

School? We are not a school.

Does it meet ADA requirements? Why doesn’t it?

Board engineer: This is just the interpretation -- if it goes to site plan those things would be addressed.

New resident: How many tickets have you received? Eight.

Were you fined on any of those? Has not been determined.

Were you told to shut down? We were not.

Board president: We do not issue summonses.

Cindy Lupiano: If the board was aware of this when he moved in why wasn’t addressed before now?

Why did the board take so long to do anything about the use variance.

Pascarella: Bought the site. I believe he thought in good faith he thought he was conforming to the statutory law. Opponents contend his actions go beyond statuory law.

When it came to the enforcement attention that prompted this application. Summonses hearing has been postponed until this is decided.

Deciding an interpretation of the rules.

If he needs a use variance, will the board grant it?

This is not an enforcement board.

Board president asks audience to stop yelling over each other: We need a clear record of what has been said when this goes to court.

We are hear to decide whether this is a proper use for this residence.

Suarez. Retired Lakewood High School principal. Question goes to precedent being set. Private schools in Lakewood more than 100. Tax-exempt in Lakewood 350.

Costa: Both of those questions have nothing to do with this application.

Suarez: Lakewood high school has 5000 students; transportation budget is $20 million.

Ken Jacobus: What makes you think you could backdoor us?

Costa: We do not believe he is doing anything improper.

Phyllis Gintzler, Manchester: Are you concerned that he’s not paying his taxes or do you just not want the Chabad here?

Several audience members say the issue is the taxes.

Alison Stelita: You do not drive on Saturdays because of your faith? How do people get to your services? However they come they are welcome to come.

Who are the principals of Chabad Jewish Center.

I am one, Rabbi (unintelligible) and Joseph Brooks. I am the director. Stelita: That is not an officer. ”I am the president.”

Carey Tajfel with Hotels Unlimited of East Windsor: Would you use our hotels? Yes.

If this is a nuisance or an issue how come it took so long to address this?

Howell resident: Do you have any connection to Lakewood. “I have no direct association?”

The meeting has gotten very loud as objectors try to shout down anyone perceived as supporting Gourarie.

Jessica Peters: If this approved will there be sidewalks along Church Road?

Board president: It would have to go through the site plan.

If this goes through other residents can do the same thing?

Board president: There’s no blanket policy.

Renovations -- why is it listed on your website with what you want it to be?

Gourarie: A lot of what is on the website was a dream of mine. We do not plan to go forward.

We do not have a school

Charity.com Chabad of Toms River Help us grow.

What do you choose to do with that money?

Peters: The illustration on their facility shows a beautiful synagogue. Is this false?

Gourarie: Yes.

Mark Newland: On file with Toms River there were four documents. Last page of the letter says it does not qualify as a house of worship. Ms McGuirk.

McGuirk: That letter was based on caselaw. That case was determined on weekly services being held.

I don’t know what threshhold would change that.

Michael Bomhoff: According to the zoning board, what number would require a police presence?

Board president -- that has nothing to do with this board.

Next resident: If Chabad grows what will you do with all these cars?

What is the guarantee that he’s not going to have more people?

Board president: If he gets the approval the limits will be spelled out.

Michael Dedomenicus: Why did you leave the New Hampshire property? Gourarie: It became too small for my family.

Website: Who writes it? Gourarie: Sometimes hires someone to do design work.

From the website, Dedomenicus reads: Over the past six years the Chabad has grown tremendously. Our New Hampshire Avenue site will not accommodate (us).

“The website is a marketing tool.” Gourarie said.

P. Nyland: If property has been operating illegally will all these back taxes and fines be collected?

Board president: We have nothing to do with collecting fines.

Laura Petitto: Is there a minimum of 10 acres?

McGuirk: Churches and place of worship is minimum of 2 acres.

Gourarie: I never said I was a school. We offer classes for two hours a week.

Petitto wants to know how much acreage is needed for a school.

Schools acreage. It is not listed for the zone so there is no permitted criteria. It would be up to the board to determin the criteria.

Richard Tomasik: Did you fill out the application for the tax exemption in Toms River? Yes.

The purpose is quite relevant to this application. What was the purpose put down to get the tax exemption?

What was put in incorporation papers?

Gourarie: Property tax exemption was filed under clergy dwelling. He doesn’t remember what the incorporation papers say.

Next resident: If approved how would number of people be enforced? Pascarella: Would depend on reports to enforcement.

Resident asks about the tax rules. Pascarella: Tax rules -- If you feel there is an abuse of the process or a change is necessary talk to your legislators.

Resident to Gourarie: I think everyone just wants to be sure the neighborhood is kept protected.

Glenn McElroy: “How old are you?” 37.

McElroy then asked whether he was a citizen and wanted to know whether he was registered Are you a citizen of the United States? Why are you asking?

Previous speaker: It is more important that a person should come to synagogue than be observant. I wouldn’t exclude someone just because they are not as observant.

What assurances do we have that he will follow the decision?

Gourarie: I will follow whatever is set down.

(Residents getting rowdy again.)

11:10 p.m. Pascarella is now telling board to take a vote based on what has been heard. There was discussion about allowing a planner, Mr. Lynch, to speak.

Pascarella has instructions re: cases Costa brought up.

State vs. Cameron case. That was a criminal case charges brought against applicant. Applicant was given summonses for what was a very small operation. Court overruled on a criminal matter. It is a much different standard.

Ferrari vs. Commissioners of Deal. In Deal there were no zones at that time that allowed a house of worship. In Toms River there are many zones that allow houses of worship. This zone is not one of them.

Pascarella: If the board finds the use of the applicant’s property is a small use. If board is satisfied that it is more akin to a larger house of worship, then it is more akin.

Looking at Ms. McGuirk’s memo paperwork done in August. 120 days for the Zoning

Costa: Not waiving time limitations re interpretation but waiving on use variance.

The vote is happening now on the interpretation only.

I recommend we deny the requested use of the secondary use. All vote yes except Blake who abstained.

The board has denied the applicant’s request on issue of whether it needs a use variance.

Next step would be seeking approval for use variance.

Asking Costa and Liston to come to reorganization meeting to set a date for the next meeting at Toms River North.